A primer on sexism in the tech industry – by an actual girl
There have been 2 things I’ve been meaning to do for a while now. The first is to start a blog based on my experiences as a relative newbie in the web industry, and the second is to write a post on my opinions of sexism in the industry based on what I’ve experienced so far. Today I read this post on .net magazine purporting to be about sexism in the industry and it enraged me so much that I was compelled to finally write my own take.
I have many, many problems with this article. So let’s go through them one by one.
- This article is called ‘A primer on sexism in the tech industry’ and yet if you read it, it basically has nothing to do with sexism in the tech industry. There’s a super helpful glossary at the start (because clearly none of us know what any of those mean, we’re just THAT stupid), most of the article focuses on sexism in general culture, and it then goes on to talk about rape culture. Why? What has rape culture really got to do with sexism in the tech industry? I don’t know about you but I haven’t exactly read a lot of news about rapes at web agencies lately. Bringing the article down to the level of talking about rape is just complete sensationalism and completely takes attention away from any actual sexist problems that the industry may have.
- The article is written by a man. Now I don’t want to say that anyone shouldn’t be able to write about anything they like based on gender, race, age, sexuality, or anything else, but frankly, basing an article off a few things you’ve read and a couple of people you’ve talked to is never going to be the same as basing an article off your own personal experience. Some research is great, but a lot of research is totally skewed to prove a point, and it’s not always easy to tell which is which. I was told by the author on Twitter after I commented on the post that his ‘research’ was far more important than my anecdotal evidence. Isn’t social research by its nature normally based on anecdotal evidence? And who is anyone to tell me that my own experience is not important to a debate?
- He makes an awful lot of assumptions about women, which in my case at least, are completely untrue. They may well apply to some women, but they certainly don’t apply to us all (I know that I’m not the only woman in the world that has this opinion). According to the article, all women find a male-dominated industry “less appealing” and all-male groups less welcoming. Bullshit. When applying for my job I couldn’t care less whether the industry was male-dominated or not, and in general I find that men are in fact, more welcoming. In my experience (in life in general, not just in the industry), I’ve found men to be more laid back, friendlier, and easier to talk to than women. I’m sure not all women feel the same way, but there are plenty that do, and you can’t just make these sweeping assumptions to prove your point (even if they are based on ‘research’). If you are going to talk about it, at the very least you need to preface them with ‘some research has found’ or ‘many women find that’. Otherwise you’re just drawing conclusions that are plain wrong to a lot of people.
- Similar assumptions arise when the article claims that “Every woman carries that historical weight [of violence] with her wherever she goes”. EVERY woman? Are you absolutely sure about that? I’m fully aware of ways in which women have been victimised in past times. Is that something I think about every day? Hell no. I don’t know a single woman to whom that would be true (though I’m not going to claim that no-one feels that way, unlike the author I don’t claim to speak for all women, in the whole world, ever).
- He uses stereotypes (ones that I don’t think even really exist any more), and then concludes that everyone else is put off joining the industry based off of them. He describes how when you think of a hacker you picture a fat, bearded, smelly white guy. Erm… maybe in 1997 I might have. Right now in 2012 when I think of a hacker I immediately picture Penelope Garcia, closely followed by Alec Hardison. (For those of you who watch a little less TV crime drama than I do, Penelope is (unsurprisingly) a woman, Hardison is black and works out). Frankly even if I did imagine a hacker as a fat, white guy that wouldn’t put me off if that’s what I wanted to do. Why would it? If I want to do something, I’ll do it, and I won’t give a shit about who else I think will be doing it. Perhaps that isn’t true for everyone, but yet again it’s making a general answer out of the way some people feel.
- It completely discounts that men can be victims of rape too. This has nothing to do with sexism in the tech industry (then again, neither does most of the post) but was just too terrible of a statement for me to ignore. Apparently, men are happy to make jokes about rape because “you never have, and never will, face the daily threat of real life, actual rape happening to you.” I’m sorry. WHAT?! Men don’t ever get raped? No man has ever faced the threat of rape? What a horrific thing to say, and in a post which purports to be all about equality. Yes, fewer rapes happen to men than women, but that’s the key word ‘fewer’, not ‘none’. When you read such ridiculous generalisations the legitimacy of the whole article is immediately put into contention, even if you agreed with the rest of it.
I could say more, but I would just be repeating the same points. The whole article is hyperbolic generalisation, seemingly designed more to make the author look like they care about the subject than to actually discuss any real problems with sexism in the tech industry. I can safely say that not one thing mentioned in the article that supposedly applies to ‘all women’ applies to me, a woman. I’m sure these feelings and problems are experienced by some, but claiming to speak for every woman (especially when you are a man) is both ridiculous and insulting.
To finish this article off, I’ll just speak a little about my experiences of the tech industry so far. I’m pretty new to the industry – I’ve worked in UX design for the past 6 months at Sequence in Cardiff, which has around 60 employees (of which I think 11 are women) and in that time I’ve attended 2 conferences and one mini conference. I’ve been friends with a number of designers and developers for several years outside of work too. I’ve by no means experienced everything this industry has to offer, but I am able to offer my insights as a newcomer on what I have found so far.
I can honestly say that I have never once felt that I was the victim of sexism in that time. Perhaps I have just been lucky so far and I’ll experience it in the future, that’s entirely possible. It’s also entirely possible that I’ll never experience any sexism in my job. Maybe South Wales is just a lot more inclusive than other places. I don’t know any of these answers and I’m not going to guess.
I have actually experienced sexism in a past job at a local council, both through comments about how I looked (which honestly I didn’t mind as they were harmless, it’s flattering to be told you look nice), and through being treated like a secretary (which ended in a tray of coffees being slammed on a meeting table and a letter of complaint to my boss). So, it’s not like there’s been sexism at work which I just haven’t noticed; I know what it’s like.
The point of this is simply to show that, unlike what the article will have you believe, it is entirely possible to be a woman in the tech industry, like your job, get on well with your colleagues (even when most of them are, shock horror, men), and be treated in a totally fair way. Articles which rely on such broad strokes and paint the experiences of some as the experiences of all do nothing to help actual problems which do exist for specific people, they are simply there to try and hammer home a point. In this case it had the complete opposite effect on me than was intended.
Hi Laura, Thanks for writing this!
I’ve been a little confused for a while about this “sexism in our industry ” thing. I’ve seen the article, the comments on twitter – but strangely never, in over 10 years experience of this industry, personally experienced this. Even when I’ve worked in all male teams.
I’m a little worried, are people mistaking me for a man? Is this why every has always treated me as equal in my working life? IS my facial hair THAT bad?
You know also sometimes I actually LIKE to be treated as a woman and not just another of the guys, because I am different and there is NO way I’m spending every day worrying about being raped! WTF!
Laura I believe your opinion of the industry is the correct one.
Most of the sexism I have seen in the UK tech industry was in some of the management of London media companies and the most destructive that I witnessed was to do with pay, hiring and promotion decisions made when women were considered safely out of earshot. I quit one company quite loudly when I was privy to some of the management meetings held near my desk where they assumed mistakenly that I was not going to go absolutely apeshit when hearing that they wouldn’t consider women for production roles.
Thank you for writing this response because you’ve put into words exactly how I felt from reading that article.
I worked in the tech industry for three years and I’ve now worked in motorsport for two years (I’m only 25!) and in all that time, I’ve had to deal a lot more with homophobia than I have with sexism.
Great article but I’m sad to see that you think of two TV-characters when you think about a hacker. What about people like Dennis Ritchie, Joanna Rutkowska and Linus Torvalds? Those are real hackers.
Honestly I think that’s probably because I’m still pretty new to the industry whilst I’ve watched those shows for the past few years. Plus my knowledge of industry people thus far is largely biased towards designers/UXers/content strategists because of the nature of my job. I’m sure as I meet more people/hear about more people actually in the industry that will change. Also, Penelope Garcia is a pretty unforgettable character
well, if you want to learn about real female hackers. there’s grace hopper and ada lovelace. They were every bit as influential in the field of computing as dennis ritchie, and linus.
Or, one of my favorite hackers of all time:
Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper
Simply an AMAZING person.
I’ve always been partial to Mary Lynn Rajskub (as Chloe O’Brian) on the show “24″ (she can crack anything). IRL I think DHH or Matz (Rails and Ruby guys).
I totally agree with you Laura. The .net post made some good attempts at trying to increase awareness but was very over-generalized and not specific to the tech industry at all (it did say “tech industry” in the title didn’t it?).
Little known fact: many of the earliest hackers were female ‘phone phreakers’ – they often had inside knowledge of the telecomms system through working at telephone exchanges in the US. (See ‘The Hacker Crackdown’, Bruce Sterling, 1992)
Yes, thanks for writing this – it’s refreshing.
I’ve also been bewildered by all the noise regarding sexism in the tech industry where I have not witnessed even a drop of it. I have no idea as to what is actually going on here, to be honest. I’m also confused by the fact that there is a big push to get women into industry X while there are no plans for getting more men into female dominated industries such as childcare. Isn’t equality supposed to be, you know, equal?
This takes the place of “best first blog post”. Way to go.
Fantastic article, I enjoyed every word of it (and audibly chuckled at the mention of Garcia, I could talk about that show all the live long day). I’m currently doing some research for a blog about women in the tech industry and I’m finding it really difficult to write about. When some women feel put off my men in the industry, others may not. But that’s the point – there is no one way that ‘women’ feel. Nobody talks about how men feel because of course they’re all different and independent people with their own opinions. In the meantime EVERY SINGLE WOMAN is off doing and thinking something else, but the same as the woman next to her and the woman after that. Right? Oh wait, no, that’s ridiculous. Also, for the record, I was at a digital event last night (my first, I’m also new to the industry) and saw possibly as many women as men. It was hosted by a woman and if I was treated differently because I am a woman then I definitely didn’t notice it.
You sound like a very level-headed, laid back sort of person. We need more of this in the workplace (and indeed the world). Enjoy your new(ish) career!
Bravo. Glad you spoke up and shared your thoughts. Thank you!
Have any of you (male or female) noticed disparities in pay? That seems to be the more insidious and subtle way any -ism manifests itself.
A refreshing article with an interesting insight. In a slightly related note I was surprised to read in that .net article that us men are all making ‘rape jokes’ about women and thinking nothing of it. I’ve never even heard a ‘rape joke’ let alone had the chance to (apparently) think nothing of it.
Laura – you took the words right out of my mouth. Excellently presented, thank you for your strength and well-written points. Keep blogging, please!
Thank you for taking the time to write this. It’s honest, genuine — courageous, too. I’ll be back to read more of what you have to say in this blog!
About male rape:
“U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male.” (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics)
Recommended reading/watching:
http://youtu.be/TAOxGjNbp_Y (focuses on opensource)
http://bit.ly/YAPC2012_Keynote (given at the end of the presentation, research made by the speaker)
My personal experience is that there are very few girls in tech, for no understandable reason. If yours is that everything is ok, good for you
I enjoyed reading you.
Honestly while I don’t have huge amounts of experience within the industry I still haven’t noticed one bit of sexism so far, although just from twitter alone I have noticed that sexism in the tech (be it gaming, web,whatever) industry seems to be the ‘hot topic’ for lack of a better term.
And if you look at most people that are making these claims on twitter or writing blogs on it, you’ll see that many use the same ‘equality for all’ speech while simultaneously degrading men as all sexist elitist pigs.
The sooner the trend ends the better,
Either way great blog post I look forward to reading more from you
“What has rape culture really got to do with sexism in the tech industry?”
I highly suggest reading this article about rape culture at Yale:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/nyregion/08yale.html?pagewanted=all
I didn’t go to Yale, but I went to another well known American university and experienced a lot of the same things. I had female friends who were sexually assaulted on campus who have been too afraid to report it or dismissed if they do. It’s not uncommon to walk through a row of college houses/dorms and *not* have racists or sexist things yelled at you on weekends. There was even an incident where someone put a sign up outside of the women-only dorms (where I lived) that said, “get back in the kitchen” right outside of it. It makes computer science lectures that are 99% male very uncomfortable, and it made me question my choice of profession many, many times. When you said that you found men easier to talk to, I found that the opposite was true when I was a college student. It was nearly impossible to talk to any other male in my computer science classes.
That’s my experience, at least. I’ve talked to other women developers who had a better time in college than me. I can honestly say that since I graduated and started working a few years ago it has been so much better. In general, it’s not fair to demonize all men in the tech industry.
Overall, I wouldn’t discount Faruk’s position because he’s a guy. He spends a lot of time thinking about this, and I doubt it’s because he simply wants to be seen as caring about sexism.
My personal experience:
I’ve been in tech for ~6 years, and I’ve received and witnessed some sexism in that time. Largely it’s harmless, but it’s fucking boring to listen to some asshat tell you (un-prompted!) that he reckons more women don’t code because it takes a lot of concentration and women are more social and prefer to chat than sink deep into a coding fug. In more severe cases I’ve been told by a senior colleague I had a nice arse, and asked for a blowjob at a work party, and hey, thinking about it, when I got stuck in a lift with that guy and he ‘joked’ about raping me, yeah, I was scared shitless. Of course, maybe in this case I’m confusing your common-or-garden sexist with a sexist in technology.
To conclude: Different people have different experiences and they deal with them is different ways. I think Faruk’s post is a bit heavy handed, but to write him off because you haven’t experienced any of what he’s talking about seems equally so.
I think she was objecting more to the sweeping brush used in the original article.
The point I got from her post was that maybe sexism is a more complex issue and should not be treated in “absolute” terms. I think it is possible to think about sexism, and try to be sensitive to it, while not really understanding all the ways it can be manifest.
Great piece – thanks for writing it. I had similar reactions to the .net article. I’ve been a developer for 13 years and worked in a lot of different companies (all UK) – yes, the industry is very male dominated but I see articles like that and wonder whether I’ve just been really lucky because I’ve never seen this “hostile, macho culture” and in general find geeks, both male and female, to be quite a lovely bunch. I’m sure there is sexism out there but I don’t think it’s that common, and making it appear otherwise isn’t going to help even out any gender ratios.
I was pretty happy to see netmag even try to address this article – and actually some of those things do come over better from a guy (should they? Probably not, but hey).
Laura, I hope you always feel this way about your career and about our industry. I am sure you will go far!
Great, great article. Well done.
I’ve been working in the tech industry for nudging up on twenty years now. (Yikes?)
I’ve witnessed a lot of sexism, from sixty-something CEOs giggling when they discussed the secretary’s “bosoms” with the rest of the staff to developers constantly assuming that women were “in marketing.”
Yeah, this isn’t stuff that’s exclusive to the technology world, but it’s definitely at odds with the self-perception that many developers and technologists have — that it’s an equal opportunity world of pure merit. The fact that you’ve never experienced or witnessed sexism in the tech world is a great thing! But it also means that you’re in a relatively small minority — ironically.
I have been in the tech industry since 1996 and have experienced very little sexism – certainly far less than while working as a cocktail server in college
The only thing I noticed was a tendency to promote males over females in the early years but I haven’t seen much evidence of this reluctance in the past several years. Personally, I too was very comfortable working in an male dominated industry (3), do not carry a “historical weight of violence” (4) and notice that most of the men I work with in the industry drive Subaru’s, shop at REI, ride bikes / climb rock walls and are generally quite attractive (5).
I guess I’m guilty of assuming that this is just another case of someone who noticed a topic trending on twitter one day and hoped to gain some attention by writing an article about it. Anyway, thank you Laura for making these excellent excellent points for me.
I find it really disappointing every time I read this type of thing coming from women in the industry. The argument that it hasn’t happened to you in the vast six months you’ve worked in UX, and thus it must not be a problem, is just as frustrating as similar arguments coming from men. There are countless horror stories from women in the field. There is plenty of research on the matter out there (Google it). If you haven’t experienced issues, be thankful. Don’t go fighting against people who are trying to bring attention to the issues that other women have.
I tried very hard in my post NOT to claim that these things aren’t a problem. I realise that some people absolutely do experience sexism and I purposely mentioned that I have only been in the industry a short time so that I wasn’t claiming to be writing from a much more experienced position. My argument was premised on the fact that an overly generalised, sensationalist article that makes assumptions about all women as this one does, does nothing to help the cause. Surely if I, as a woman, read an article that is supposed to be in my defence and it makes me so very angry the article is clearly failing at its purpose?
Another couple thoughts about this, inspired by the above comment.
The problem with posts like this is that, while well-written and with a well defined scope, people will misconstrue them to say that there isn’t a problem. Or they will misinterpret your intentions to understand that you are saying that there isn’t a problem.
I personally have observed sexism in the tech industry too many times to count. Sexism is a problem in lots of places. Evidence shows that it tends to be more prevalent in male dominated industries (like tech).
But I think another problem is that there are not enough women in the tech industry. The two problems are probably related in some ways, but they are not definitively causal.
While I understand the intentions of this post are good in that they are pointing out the poorly worded generalizations of the cited article, it misdirects the discussion away from the problems and unintentionally gives ammunition to the people that like the status quo.
Sexism is a problem (wherever it occurs). And there aren’t enough women in tech. It is certainly fair to call out those that overgeneralize or try to speak for all women (no one has that right), but let’s do it in a way that acknowledges and respects the underlying issues.
The tech industry has a problem. There are not enough women. Why is that a problem…because gender diversity generally leads to better results. Lack of gender diversity = less than optimal results. There is reams of evidence to support this.
While generally well-intentioned, I think that the author of the cited article probably does more harm than good. Your post highlights that clearly and points out the dangers of overgeneralizing.
Many people make the assumption that sexism in the tech industry is the cause of the problem I identified above. I don’t know if that’s true. But there is still a problem. We need to understand why. Research, sharing experiences (like this post) and discussing it are some of the best ways to discover the true issue. Let’s not lose sight of that.
[...] A primer on sexism in the tech industry – by an actual girl [...]
Usually I’m a little bit allergic to sexism-in-tech related articles because sometimes authors tend to go on rampage and can’t keep their objectivity on the subject matter.
I really like how you’ve addressed the .net article. My opinion is very similar. I’ve never encountered any sexism towards me. I worked in several startups already, I also started speaking at conferences few months ago and experienced nothing but kindness and openness. Also, I’ve never felt as I had special privileges. Similar to you, I found male company (in the workplace) usually even more friendly than female.
I’m really surprised by this conversation on twitter – https://twitter.com/KuraFire/status/256456106166087680. What’s ‘funny’ is recently at one conference I’ve seen similar behavior from a male speaker. He did a lot of assumptions, used hell of stereotypes and sexist lines. Then he refused to claim responsibility for doing anything wrong because his statements were, supposedly, backed up by SCIENCE (from some papers he quoted afterwards) which equally made them valid, and us, the audience, not capable of understanding them. Way to go.
Bravo! I’m a veteran of the tech industry and a woman. Back in the day, I would go to a national (USA) conference and truly be the only woman in the whole place — I’m talking the whole Javitts Center in NYC. Even then, I found the tech industry to be a forward-thinking realm. A place where it was about making ideas reality and anyone who could help was welcomed.
Was there an inherent sexism in all of life back then? Sure. I remember laughing my head off at a conference where a guy was standing up and showing off the latest router and exclaiming about how “sexy” it was (it was really big too, it being 1995 or so). But, of course, “Sexy” was overused in marketing a lot of great new technologies in the 1990′s. (And there are things I miss from those days too like the three martini lunch with clients and the general camaraderie among colleagues that is missing now that everyone has to be politically correct about about so damn much.)
When I went into the tech industry, I remember being very excited by the fact that there were fewer hurdles to deal with as a woman, compared to other industries I had worked in (publishing, banking).
Is there still progress to be made for women in the workplace? You bet. But there’s nothing like hindsight to see how far things have really come.
I think some of the sexism that the article refers to is online based – where the internet is providing a bit of anonymity for someone to hide behind when they make their stupid remarks. One example where I experienced it first hand was during the 200th episode of the Boagworld podcast (a very popular web design & development podcast). A number of the very talented speakers were female. While they were giving their talks, the comments going through the accompanying chat was horrendous. Now I’m sure a lot of this was stupid teenage boys making immature comments (not that it’s any excuse) but it was still pretty harsh stuff. The people speaker are very good at what they do and certainly did not deserve to be attacked like they were. It did hurt the speakers and seemed to be indicative of behaviour they would come across occasionally.
What I’m basically trying to say is not to attack the article too harshly. It’s trying to do a good thing and bring a difficult subject to the foreground. Sexism may not have happened to you or any of the people commenting, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen and it can often be very public when it does happen.
Even if the article is a little too black or white, surely it’s better to bring it up in a published magazine (if this makes the mag anyway) then have the problem be swept under the rug? I’d love to see more women in the industry and having open debates on this kind of problem surely can only be a good thing. It shows that as an industry, we’re debating the important issues and trying to make things better.
Lee,
(@leesy)
Initially Faruk meant well, he cares about the issue, and wants people to think about it, but over the course of the past months he has lost the plot completely.
Nowadays, his anti-sexism tweets and posts are more about populism and sound like being politically correct for the sake of being politically correct. The more I see something on the topic from him, the more I get turned off by his Mr. Know It All position. “Yeah we get it Faruk” (though his response would probably be “No, that’s the point, you DONT get it”).
It’s come to a point where I see Faruk as the penultimate sexist……cause he seems to think ALL men are sexist and ALL women suffer from it.
Thank you for the article Laura.
I have personal experience with pretty much everything the article writer mentioned.
But the problem is not NEARLY as bad in tech these days as it was 15-20 years ago. Communities have been making big strides, and I’d like to think a part of that is because more of us women are getting involved.
There was a point made in the comments about generally a lack of females in the industry. I am a secondary teacher of computing and over the past 5 years I have only ever had 1 female student in a class compared to 24 males. This year there are none. The question I’d like to find out the answer to is why. What is happening (or not happening) that means out of a cohort of 320 not 1 single girl is interested. And I think it’s a problem that mine and many other schools have a problem with.
What got you interested?
Dude here, in my experience anti-female sexism is generally more prevalent on the lower end of the industry. Personal experience and tales of other people in higher profile, higher skilled jobs in places like silicon valley and the bay area, your Google’s and GitHubs don’t seem to have much of this. If anything there’s a bit of a craving for female talent for general want of gender balance (and PC reasons, whatever your take on that is).
Correspondance with folks in podunk towns working slightly less glamorous IT style jobs is where I’ve heard most of the bad stuff. Which is not to say that it doesn’t happen in the silly valley, its just not my experience.